Chapter 11
Omnipotent Beings
From> think1st@netcom.com (THINKfirst!)
Subject> Re> Saint Ayn
Date> Fri, 5 Jan 1996 06>51>58 GMT
Chuck Kincy (ckincy@netcom.com) wrote:
Challenge
You are not going to be an omnipotent being.
Response
Where does it say you will?
Challenge
But it does say:
As babies first start becoming conscious, perhaps around two years of age, they automatically become citizens of the universe with omnipotent yet unlearned and unrealized powers over all life and existence.[ 66 ] But, before they can realize those unlimited powers, all young children are relentlessly, remorselessly drawn into Earth's irrational anticivilization.
This seems to imply that a lack of anticivilization would make everyone omnipotent. So, it does seem that NTP makes such a claim.
Response
So it is.
What, then, is the argument with the passage? Where does it go astray?
Challenge
You are not going to become superhuman and communicate with other galaxies and universes telepathically faster than the speed of light.
Response
Where does it say you will? When our own expanding knowledge reaches that limitation, we can join the millions of other civilizations in our universe who have reached that point. We can then communicate through the universal computer (perhaps gravity-coded) and control existence as our fellow conscious beings do. For, then, the entire universe of universes expanding at near the speed of light becomes our computer and storage facility for all acquired knowledge.[ 41 ]
In that quote, there is no talk of superhuman abilities or any sort of telepathy. So it would that my question is as yet unanswered.
Challenge
You are a kook. You belong in the Kook of the Month club, right next to Archimedes Plutonium.
Response
This conclusion rests on what evidence?
Challenge
I believe in an open mind, but not so open that my brains fall out (so unfortunate that the evil Bill Bennett said it first, but it is a good principle). I have to hold my hands on my head while reading this stuff....
Response
Everyone is free to form their own conclusions. And I wouldn't think of forming them for either of you.
But there is a lot of foundation sitting underneath these quotes you've given. Foundation that places them squarely upon a firm base of reality. If you're willing to consider it honestly, I think you'll find folks willing to offer some explanation. If you'd prefer to reject it, that's fine, too.
But the reality is that it's all there.
My suggestion (if you know Objectivism at all) is to imagine what happens if you take Objectivism to its logical extreme.
In article <4cmu4v$2tc_002@netcom.com, nickrich@netcom.com
(Nicholas Rich) wrote:
In article <4cmeqf$lq6@utopia.hacktic.nl, anon-remailer@utopia.hacktic.nl (Anonymous) wrote:
Challenge
No matter how rational and fully integrated I am, I cannot travel faster than light. I cannot build a perpetual motion machine. I cannot create matter out of nothingness. The term 'omnipotent' is used in religions and comic books to describe fantasy creatures. It has no use in describing the real world.
Response
The use of the word omnipotent in the context of Zonpower is simply all power to control existence within natural laws. This is very clear in the book.
Challenge
That is not what omnipotent means. To use the term in advertising for and introductions to Neo-Tech literature is very deceptive.
Response
Ralph Nader would agree with you. Why not go and get him to come whip up a bunch of problems?
The book also points out the fallacy of perpetual motion.
Challenge
Once you postulate omnipotence all things are possible. The solution is to stop using sloppy and dishonest wording.
Response
The point is that you're pulling statements out-of-context. When the book is written in the context of the primacy of existence, and is replete with information pointing to all sorts of hoaxes which emanate from the faulty notion that physical laws can be disregarded, then you are being dishonest, just as you would be for dumping on a store which advertises that Santa is paying a visit.
The use of the word "omnipotence" is for one very clear reason to those who understand the context of the whole. The author's attitude to the subject matter is such that a full realization of what conscious human beings are capable of accomplishing with rationality, knowledge, and technology, is virtual omnipotence by our standards.
It's like saying "anything's possible." It's a common phrase, and in the right context, totally justified. "Everything" is not possible (cows can't fly, for example), but in certain contexts, it serves to differentiate the sort of success which befalls those who exert real effort.
Imagine someone from ancient Greece coming to visit us for a week, and then he has to go back. What would he tell everyone. He could say a lot, but perhaps the best way to express the exhilaration he really feels would be something along the lines of: "they can and do anything. They're "omnipotent.")
Nowhere does NT or ZP claim anyone/thing can violate the laws of physics/nature--such as exceeding the speed of light.
Challenge
It does postulate faster than light communication, which is forbidden by modern physical theory.
Response
In another post, I've shown you a common example of how you can already communicate instantaneously.
Again, the poster is ignorant of what he's talking about.
Challenge
On the contrary, I live in the real world. I know exactly what I'm talking about. You are in a cult and my awareness of this gives me a considerable edge in these discussions. Ever read "Red Dragon"? At one point detective Graham is talking to Hannibal Lecter and Lecter asks if he thinks he's smarter than Lecter. Graham answers 'I'm not smarter than you.' 'But you caught me.' 'You had disadvantages' 'Which are?' 'You're insane'.
Response
We all live in the real world. And hey, this self-righteous, "Heretic" BS has already been exposed for what it is. It's not reality what you're interested in. What you're interested in is trolling around, starting flame wars.
So, I'd immediately question your own estimation of your ability to perceive reality, not to mention your confidence in the fact that what's in reality is real.
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